The Power Shift Podcast – The Power of Women in Technology with David Leighton
Sharon Melnick:
Welcome, David Leighton to The Power Shift Podcast. I want to get started by really understanding how you came to be on here today. You are a pioneer in the field of women’s quality and equity. Tell us the story of how it started for you. It’s personal for you.
David Leighton:
Thank you. I was born into it because when I was first year in college, my mom had a research company. She got a big contract at the same time I got offered a job in Downtown LA and it was to do research for her. So that’s how I started working in this space, that eventually led to WITI. We were doing at the time, research for companies to identify people with core competencies in different areas and then they wanted you to build business partnership with them, hire them, buy their companies, that type of thing.
In ’89 when the term glass ceiling was first coined in the U.S. News & World Report magazine, the conversation at the time, they were talking about women approaching 50% of the workforce yet such a small fraction of management and upper management positions. Many of the women, my mom had been dealing with Carolyn and our clients would just share some of the challenges they were having or just some of the frustrations.
A lot of our clients, they were more tech leaders so they were just disappointed because they wanted to work on the cool technology they had been studying for years. At the same time, the companies were having trouble finding people so it just didn’t make sense. So really what we felt we wanted to do and really what Carolyn’s vision was just to open up the conversations.
We saw because HP Labs was an early company client of us before we started WITI and one thing that always impressed us when you’d go through the halls of HP Labs, they’d have focus groups, they’d have different people of different colors and genders and some were doctors looking at technology and how they were going to use it for the next five years or five, 10 years. That’s really what we wanted to bring into WITI. It’s about diversity of thought. It’s not about helping the poor women, it’s about understanding that this is a value to your business when you can create a culture that works for everybody, the company is going to win.
Yeah, so WITI started out very grassroots. I landed a client for us, a company called Borland that was a small software company in the Santa Cruz mountains and I worked with Philippe to help build Borland right when they bought Quattro Pro or Surpass became the Quattro Pro Spreadsheet. Grew Borland till ’95 when Philippe left. We used that to fund WITI for the first five years when we had our own conference and there was a business model themselves. I went on, I worked with Marc Benioff then when he was at Oracle still in his last project there and helped with some of the search. I helped my mom grow WITI and my brother was involved too. Had been at CNET at the time and learned how to build distributed databases and contact management systems. So that’s how things evolved into WITI.
Sharon Melnick:
Powerful mom made it a family affair. Inspired her two sons, let alone lots of people in the Valley.
David Leighton:
Exactly. I always helped and supported her. As things built up, the dot-com growth happened and WITI grew. There were a couple of CEOs brought into WITI right when things were peaking but then the downturn happened and then the next one with 9/11. So we were at a point then of rebuilding and looking at what some of the deeper things were in infrastructure and business models that we could create were. So we just continued to grow and fast forward to last year once COVID happened, that really made a big shift in our business which we’re pretty excited about. It enabled us to step back for a minute, really give support to our members around the world and have close contact to find out what they needed.
I think by mid-May, we had our Wellbeing Center up, we had different programs to connect our members. Just started working with a new partner, Salesforce and that forced us to really look at our business, look at what companies needed as a lot of the things that happened over the summer with George Floyd and some of the social issues. I think companies now are really looking at how can they authentically shift to support the next generation of people in the world. I think the next generation, the Gen-Zers, they’re not going to want to work for companies, do business with companies that aren’t aligning with their core values. I think when we can create that and have alignment with core values with our team, we’re going to get the most out of our people and we’ll have effective businesses.
Sharon Melnick:
Yeah. And accountability. So you have a vantage point from being involved so early in this conversation. We’d love to hear from you what’s been the evolution in the conversation that you’re saying now it’s more the input of the Gen-Z’s, you’re saying it’s holding companies accountable and really being able to make an impact with their values. But what’s evolved overtime and what’s interesting to be on the lookout for going forward?
David Leighton:
Yeah. I think that we started WITI, our first conference in ’95. Everybody said, “Oh, you’ll have a couple 100 people.” We had a few thousand, right?
At that point too, technology was the big equalizer. As long as you knew your tech, you were good and we had built up the conference. In the late 90s, I saw a shift where a lot of the tech companies started bringing in more of these administrators to oversee some of the diversity goals but more from a numbers administrative standpoint. The big companies, many of them who would have a 45, 40 booth, showing off their technology, building relationships with our community would then just have a table with two recruiters there collecting resumes.
I think that whole shift where it was the tech industry was growing up, they felt maybe that some of these things, there were certainly government regulations where they have to talk to a certain amount of people, blah, blah, blah. That’s I think what shifted to the in late 90s, early 2000s and had continued till still goes on in a lot of places. I think as the data improves, I mentioned we’re having Michelle Bailey as the new CEO of WITI by the time, I think anybody listens to this. She is a research fellow in GVP and IDC. We feel that we’ve done a lot with the data, we started working with René Redwood when she was the executive director of the Glass Ceiling Commission under President Clinton in the mid-90s. We worked with her to write the technology piece of that and get the technology companies involved.
Sharon Melnick:
Amazing. What is the data showing you? What is the conclusion?
David Leighton:
Well it shows us a lot. It shows us that one of the key findings was that women will stay at their job 1.4 years longer than their male counterparts. You look at that just from a monetary standpoint, that’s a huge opportunity for companies to have longevity with their employees. I think we’re seeing movement with Nasdaq with their announcement December first that they’re going to want every Nasdaq listed company to have at least one woman and another diverse candidate on their board. If not, they just need to write a letter explaining why that’s not appropriate for them but again, this about Nasdaq put that in place because they get that companies with diversity of thought are going to be good investments in longevity for companies and for their investors.
Sharon Melnick:
Right, research shows that.
David Leighton:
Instead, they’re helping the women and if you go to the SEC page, there’s all these negative things about the disasters that are going to happen. Again, it’s really about creating a more effective, more diversity of thought so you can have more innovation with your products, delivery, supply chain, et cetera.
Sharon Melnick:
Yeah, and match products to your consumer base. Right. Has the nature of the conversation changed? Are the levers different now because now you’re saying, “So this has changed, it’s coming from the top, it’s coming from the regulators, it’s coming from public opinion.” Is that having a difference? You are in such a valuable position to share with us and to make an impact because you’re really in there talking with leaders of companies and you’re talking to the women who are in the companies, on the front lines. What’s the nature of the conversation, how has it been shifting?
David Leighton:
I still think there’s a lot of lip service out there.
Sharon Melnick:
Yeah.
David Leighton:
I think companies are trying to shift. I think a lot don’t know what to do. We’re committed to no lip service, no window dressing and if companies are interested in working with us or in any of these things, let’s see how much money they’re investing in it. You have many of these companies saying, “Oh, let’s give 10 grand to this group and 10,000 to that group.” When it’s a joke when you look at the size of these billion dollar corporations and they’re just trying to help out the groups and show that they’re… I don’t know what they’re trying to show.
Sharon Melnick:
Right, check a box but not real commitment.
David Leighton:
Right. When in fact, when I was doing my searches for Borland and for all my clients, I’d go out and find the people I wanted. For our members, I try to show them and Sharon, since our last clubhouse show, we have a new rule. No one’s allowed to justify why they’re a tech innovator because that’s what we hear, I think. I remember we could have two people with the same skillset, a man and a woman. The man saying they’re a tech savvy blah, blah, blah. Many of the women that we hear, “Oh, I’m not really too technical.” We have to change that vernacular, we have to give them the confidence and the language to use because I think a lot of this is just-
Sharon Melnick:
And really own their talents
David Leighton:
Yeah.
Sharon Melnick:
Is that what you mean by that?
David Leighton:
Yes. Look, where tech is now, it’s not necessarily if I can’t do it with tech, is it my fault or did the tech companies, have they not created something that’s allowing to express myself, right?
Sharon Melnick:
Well let’s get into that a little bit actually because this is something that I’m sure you hear amongst your membership. I’m a member as well so I hear this amongst my fellow members and I hear this from my clients all the time. I think there’s a little bit of a vicious cycle. You know I’m a business psychologist so I think about it this way. I think we internalize the projections onto us which is maybe that we don’t belong or we know that blind ratings of women coding for example is that their coding is qualitatively better. Let’s just say that in men, it’s not needing to be better but just that it’s excellent but when women come to rating themselves and when others rate them, lower quality even though objectively speaking.
So, it’s just an example of the way that women have internalized this projection and then we can show up is what you’re saying. Not owning it, not going for that next level role, not maybe presenting ourselves in that way and then we might not get that next opportunity or make the impact or get the buy in. Then it’s like, there’s not enough of those women who can do that or “she needs to step up in terms of her competence.” I just think it’s a snarl, and it’s a vicious cycle. What do you hear and what’s the conversation in the companies? Are they aware of this, are you helping them do something about it?
David Leighton:
Yeah. I think a lot of them are in denial. We’re trying to help them shift. Some want to go this some of this technology where you don’t see the other person.
Sharon Melnick:
Right. Like an orchestra tryout study. Right.
David Leighton:
Right. There’s advantages to hiring a woman, why aren’t you looking at that? Who’s your market? I think we’re starting to see a shift. I think communities like WITI and the many others around the world to give people the support. I coach many of our members just on their job search strategies and our game plan with my people that I coach are let’s figure out what companies you’re interested in working for and then let’s find out who the person is to talk to there and then let’s have a conversation. So, it’s not this put in a resume, an application process.
Right now, you can get with anybody to build relationships. We use the power of WITI to then they’ll answer a call. We have an intern program too, I work with our interns. If they’re interested in working at Microsoft, I have them in charge of the Microsoft speaker for our summit so they can build a relationship.
Sharon Melnick:
Amazing. What a competitive advantage to be a member of WITI. This is a perk that you get so listen up here. I want to go back to something that you said when you said, “Well they’re in denial.” I’m just curious, can we slow that down a little bit and just understand what really is the conversation that you’re having with leaders. I presume corporate members or prospective members or maybe just hearing from your individual members. What is actually said? What is the code, what does it mean, what do you say in response, how does that go because you’re in the room. You’re in the room where it happens so tell us more about that so we really understand this phenomenon because it’s at the moment of when minds meet hearts that we’re open to change. So tell us more.
David Leighton:
Yeah. Look, my mom turned 80 a couple of weeks ago. Just with all the data, with Michelle coming on, with all the things that we’ve looked at. With these companies, I just can’t have them wasting our time anymore. Chris Voss is a friend in a men’s group I’m in. So I don’t know if you’re familiar with Chris.
Sharon Melnick:
Yeah, sure. The negotiator, yeah.
David Leighton:
Yeah. So his thing is as soon as possible, figure out if you can do business or not do business. Get rid of them. So I used to listen to these companies go on and on about how much they want to do this and how much they want to do that. We have a $10,000 cheque or something. I know what they’re paying the useless recruiting firms, the Randstad’s, these others. So either they’re going to be serious about it, look at it strategically or they’re just spinning their wheels and eventually their competitors will catch up, companies that get it will take them on. I don’t know, time will tell.
Sharon Melnick:
Got it. So the conversation is back to the lip service but then the actual actions don’t match that.
David Leighton:
Right. I mean we’re starting to see it now. Like Salesforce, we have our she.WITI.com hub in five languages. We have Hebrew, Japanese, Portuguese, Spanish and English. They get and Salesforce is an amazing leader. They want to build. We’re working with them to get more women and underrepresented groups familiar with their technology so that their customer base will have a great, diverse group of candidates to go into, to join them and that we can help them get into those companies. For Salesforce itself, we work with them on some hiring level things around the globe.
Sharon Melnick:
Amazing. And enjoy pay equity once they’re at Salesforce because they’ve been a leader in that. Absolutely amazing. Can I go a little bit deeper with this because you’re able to have an experience that I for example, am not able to have. You can be in those rooms and it can be mano a mano or maybe you’re dealing with a woman leader but you’re in that. You bring that experience and perspective into those conversations. Can you help me understand something that I might not have visibility into. What is the mindset, what is the understanding, the assumptions, the unwritten pressures that men might experience and you’re one of them yourself so anything that you want to share that you are aware of.
David Leighton:
I think it’s comfort, people being around each other, hiring friends, right? That’s what we do, we have our communities. I think if companies are interested. So, from a white man perspective, I guess I see that. Growing up in LA with my mom who had worked, and my mom and dad got divorced early in my life. So just the fact that women couldn’t do something, I was on the first school year that was bust in LA in the different community. I guess a lot of this stuff is so foreign to me and then as I started working with the Borland’s of the world, we didn’t care if they were a man, woman, green, brown, if they could code Windows 3.0, we’re getting them.
So, it wasn’t really till I saw I feel a lot of these numbers driven programs going in. We continued to see the high growth of women owned businesses and startup, right? Not because they’re flying here from Mars because this is human capital that if the companies don’t shift, these are amazing people. They could be hiring but then there’s issues in the companies, they don’t have the right culture, the hit manager, director and bail.
Sharon Melnick:
Right. And actually, you’re probably familiar with this but Working Mother had this report that came out in summer of 2020. They found that 50% of multicultural women report that they want to leave their company within two years. So yeah, that’s a serious statistic about attrition.
David Leighton:
Yeah it is. So, I think companies have to look at it because again, this is just talent they are losing and if they want to shift it. Men, me and people that look like me started the corporate structure. It was all built on how we work and compete. Fast forward then it was 50/50, I’m expecting you to excel in how I work. So now I’m stifling your growth and as a company, I’m getting 70% of half of my people because I’m not allowing them to be fully self-expressed in how they work. If we can remove that, it’s like they’re getting an extra 100 employees or whatever, right? So yeah, I think is we can show them the data, get them to start understanding the bottom-line value, we go to a lot of the industries. We haven’t even talked about who’s buying the cars or who’s opening the bank accounts, right? It’s a no brainer.
Sharon Melnick:
That seems to be the default argument and I don’t mean default in a critical or weak way because it is a powerful business case, right? When you think about who the buyer is and we know that the ROI increases, the more a certain threshold of number of women leaders in companies. So it’s certainly grow the pie, there’s something in it for everyone. So we go to this argument but is there any other lens on this, is there any other way to approach the conversation because I know plenty of leaders who have tried to make this business case and it seems to get caught in that trap of the lip service to good intentions cliff. So is there anything just from your own experience because you’re working with corporate members and you’re really making a dent in the industry. So, is there any other approach that our listeners learn from your experience?
David Leighton:
Well yeah. Look, don’t let anything stop you. I could go through a million times where like, “Forget WITI or it’s whatever.” Get past it. We’re in our virtual world, you could do a lot with a little, right? ‘I can’t’ is a statement not a fact. So, think about how you’re using that, think about how you’re using ‘because’ to justify what you just said because you’re not confident about it, right? So I think for entrepreneurs, it’s a golden time. There’s a lot of things changing with the new climate, the new environment just around the human capital issues. A lot of the companies may not be around and I think it’s going to create some new opportunity. So it’s an exciting time.
Just back to the earlier question, I’m going to go on a little tangent. I think data. We need to show them data. Having Michelle come on, I think it’s going to help us be taken more seriously, help companies really see we don’t want them to help the poor women, we want to help them make more money, have happier, more engaged employees.
Sharon Melnick:
Right. Always big picture, what’s in it for everyone.
David Leighton:
Yeah. And then I think-
Sharon Melnick:
And then you take it out of the zero sum game arena, yeah.
David Leighton:
Yeah. Because as we’ve been looking at a lot of these things with a lot of our new enterprise clients, they’re spending all the money anyway. They can spend less if they look at a strategic plan. They’re having these diversity consultants. Many of them could be part of the problem but is the right hand know what the left hand’s doing? There’s so many women leading technology efforts that are buyers of technology. Well if the VP of sales is doing that and wants to create a program to engage them and then the company is also trying to hire more women, what if we could wrap it into a program that gets their brand out there and helps them build relationships with the community, right? Because I look at everything we do, I don’t look at it as a recruiting thing or a sales pitch. All we are is conduits for relationship building.
Sharon Melnick:
Yeah.
David Leighton:
One of the relationship step, whether you want to work there now as we work with the companies to say who’s not going to want to go to this company when they have all these programs in place, the employees are inspired, everybody is engaged. For the companies, “There’s not enough women, I can’t get them.” Then they’re basically putting the job postings on job boards and then hoping things come through. You’re not serious, right? I’m sure, right? Whatever-
Sharon Melnick:
Okay.
David Leighton:
Yeah.
Sharon Melnick:
This is so good. This is juicy because I think that this an observation of what’s really going on and what needs to be said. So I want you to go into that a little bit deeper and I just want to say that we’re here on the Power Shift Podcast and I think what you’re talking about, this is what power is. The power to go and start your own company and get funding and bring something disruptive to the market. Power is when you can create a culture where your people are inspired at every step of the way and where you are not operating in silos and there’s a coordinated strategic effort in wanting to create a culture in which people bring their discretionary effort and innovate. It seems to me like that’s power, right? When you’re talking about how you’re helping companies to tap into that.
So can you say a little bit more about that because you’re talking about a paradigm shift. It’s not a program here, a program there that’s all fragmented but that companies really have to understand the opportunity here. So what is the opportunity as you see it and as you provide with WITI.
David Leighton:
I think the ultimate opportunity is to make the world a better place, have corporate environments that celebrate, create a sense of belonging for everybody.
Sharon Melnick:
Amen to all of that.
David Leighton:
That translates and everybody sees the stock going up, right?
Sharon Melnick:
Amen.
David Leighton:
If they’re a public company, they shouldn’t be hiring women if it’s not good for the business. They’re public companies, they need to do what’s good for the shareholders, right? I think that’s power, I think it’s confidence, it’s being true to your core values and it’s really inspiring those that you lead to get rid of anything that them telling themselves that they’re not a leader and they don’t need to have power.
Sharon Melnick:
I love that and you’re saying that’s what leadership is, is to get other people to believe in themselves because they’re inspired by the vision and they want to climb the hill with you and they want to bring their best and it makes them believe and you’re helping them to believe in themselves to do it. That’s optimism and we know certainly during this time when everyone’s worn out, right? That actually and research showed this. I know because I did a lot of training on this for teens during this whole time of trauma and stress is that realistic optimism is the frame of mind that actually helps people the most to access that positive state of mind, that can do spirit, believing in themselves and then they can innovate and connect and all the things that you’re talking about. You’re saying that leaders have enough power. Leaders have the power to create that weather on the team.
David Leighton:
Yes, definitely.
Sharon Melnick:
Go ahead. This is a little bit my premise actually. Power can be anywhere or everywhere, right? Not in the hands of other people at the top. Go ahead.
David Leighton:
I’m a big believer in you choose what you get. So, choose powerfully and all this ‘I can’t’ and everything else. That’s all just the doubt and ways that you’re holding yourself back, right? I think power is definitely something you want to empower our community into having so that they know they’re going to go in with confidence whether it’s the deal they want to get, the job they want to get. They’re going to have another person from our community that has their back to mentor them or connect with them or that type of thing.
Sharon Melnick:
Great to do it in sisterhood, it’s so important these days. Tell us a little bit more about WITI. What are you hearing from your members? What’s the buzz on the street for Women In Technology these days.
David Leighton:
Yeah, I don’t know if I can. I’ll tell you what I hear. I think people are definitely getting a little zoomed out with events. We’re definitely trying to create more interaction, give people opportunities to connect and get away from Zoom. We have a coaching leadership walk, I think twice a month where you’re not allowed to be on Zoom, right? I think it’s an exciting time. I think shifting a lot of new technologies we’re starting to get involved with WITI. We just launched our agriculture technology, Ag-tech community and Ag-bio and food tech. There’s a ton of opportunity there for tech companies for our members that work in analytics or other areas for people that want to learn those things. So, with home gardenings and things too, a lot of that increased during the pandemic.
Sharon Melnick:
Yes, I’m in for that one. I did.
David Leighton:
You did? Yeah. Look, for us it’s really been reset. How can we now look at the future and give everybody the best information, the best opportunities, the best connections and relationships so they can get whatever they want.
Sharon Melnick:
What’s really amazing is that your community is vast and international. You’re around the world. Tell us about that and what are you hearing from your chapters abroad and is there connections between people domestically and internationally? What an incredible opportunity for members.
David Leighton:
No, it’s great. We’ve been doing some pretty cool things. So WITI Egypt, Marianne… Her name jumped out of my head. She’s Egyptian and part of our WITI. Kirkland, sorry, Marianne Kirkland. She’s Egyptian and part of our WITI Tampa Bay team and then she’s also helping WITI Egypt get their network going. So we’re doing a lot of connections like that especially like mentoring with India and some of the smaller villages. They’re having a tough time now so we’re also with them.
Sharon Melnick:
Yeah, definitely a tragedy there.
David Leighton:
Yeah. So people that came out, how can we connect them now with these virtual environments? Yeah, I think if we ever had to have a pandemic, it was a good time for it with Zoom, Netflix, a lot of the things that we take for granted now and just using that to how can we strategically use this time to get who we want whether it’s a speaker for a conference, somebody I wanted to get connected to whose usually always traveling, right?
Sharon Melnick:
Right.
David Leighton:
So we’re trying to just do skillsets. We’re working with some digital marketing, how can we train our members so they can always work.
Sharon Melnick:
Great.
David Leighton:
On the Central Coast where I live, there’s the Digital NEST. How can we bring technology to some of these areas? Yeah, I think it’s just an exciting time now. We’re coming out of it, we lost so many people. It’s horrible but we’ve got to move forward.
Sharon Melnick:
Yeah, absolutely. Really exciting all these initiatives that you’re talking about and women are centrally involved and leading some of these initiatives and learning the tech and you’re creating a future there.
David Leighton:
Yeah, no. It’s good. Sorry, I came away from what you’d originally asked. When we’re doing these Japan events or WITI Australia, it’s usually about 50% people in that country now, 25% of expats from the country and then another 25% from around the world. We do a lot of just Zoom networking events where you just get tossed in a room with three people you may not have walked up to at an event.
Sharon Melnick:
Right.
David Leighton:
Right? So yeah, there’s some interesting new things. I think you just have to have a positive attitude and leverage it as best as you can.
Sharon Melnick:
I could see positive innovation coming just from those forced hallway chats that you’re creating in those Zoom rooms. That’s amazing and people are looking for that new and that inspiration so I love for you to tell me more about where I can participate in those. Really, you’ve been visionary as a leader of WITI. I think it’s amazing how vast your reach is literally around the world and how you have so many talented and enthusiastic women coming together in sisterhood. You and the corporate development at the leadership level talking to leaders in companies and really helping them to understand the power that they have access to by partnering with WITI.
David Leighton:
Yes, thank you. We’re working hard to make it happen.
Sharon Melnick:
David Leighton, thank you so much for coming as a guest on the Power Shift Podcast.
David Leighton:
Thank you Sharon, it was great to be here and great to see you and I appreciate it. If anything WITI can do for you or any of your community, please don’t hesitate to check us out.
Sharon Melnick:
Thank you so much. Tell us for existing WITI members or people who are in the field who want to learn more and be a part of this excitement. What’s coming up with WITI?
David Leighton:
We are having our 27th annual Women in Technology Summit June 22nd through the 24th. We’ll be virtual for the 2nd year. We are going to have the Hall of Fame this year and the 25th Anniversary Hall of Fame virtually. One really cool thing we’re excited about for this year’s summit is first of all, we’re going to have an amazing conversation about equity and data, and how data affects a lot of the decisions companies are making and how we’re transforming data.
We’re also having an APAC part of the summit. So the APAC part’s going to happen for two hours then they’ll be an hour of networking that’s going to be a post APAC and pre-North America. So there’s going to be just you’re going to be Zoom networking with people from around the world and getting thrown into random rooms. So they’ll be an hour of that and then we get into the summit. So yeah, just really excited.
This will be the third virtual summit we’ve done and it’s good, we’re getting pretty creative and everybody seems to be learning a lot, making great connections and having a great time.
Sharon Melnick:
Count me in, I’ll be there. WITI women creating the future. Thank you so much.
David Leighton:
Thanks so much Sharon. Have a great rest of your evening.
Sharon Melnick:
Yeah. I really, really appreciate your perspective. So you’re really doing great things. Thanks for taking us into the room with you and telling us about those conversations because those conversations with leaders is where real change can happen.
David Leighton:
Definitely.
Sharon Melnick:
Thank you so much.
